Darwin Pedal & Hihat FAQ » (Optional) Velcro placement

#1 | (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:36 pm (Last edited: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:06 am)

First of all, thanks to James for the awesome Hoopclamp video.

I googled a bit and did not find a video or something else to that topic, I hope I did not miss something, so let's discuss it here.

I took James' advice and attached the optional Velcro to the pedal last week. I did it in a way that I found logical due to the size of the velcro strips, as shown in the photo*. I did not want to cover screws nor did I want to cut the velcro.

What I thought it would be like is that the rubber feet would have pretty much the same height as the velcro strips and therefore the pedal would stay plane, level on the carpet surface while the velcro would just stop it form moving.
What it does on my carpet at home is that the slave pedal is tilting over the back velcro strip raising it's front while playing full leg motion / flatfoot and the main pedal tilts over the front velcro strip because the weight of the drum pushes it's back into the air. The velcro seems to be a bit thicker than the rubber feet, so all that tilting caused a bad feeling and much noise while playing.

Unfortunately my timing is a bit bad, I did not manage to post this thread yesterday, I had to use my practice time, that setup did not work so I changed the velcro placement yesterday already.
Now I have seen James' video** and he placed his velcro in a pretty much similar way (I think he has cut the back strip a bit shorter to place it more towards the end.) At the last party of his video you can observe his main pedal tilting up and down on the back side, which makes that feeling that I cannot stand.

Questions:
- How did you people attach your velcro?
- How is it meant to be done?

I hope that topic will help the community with similar problems.

*(The spikes are out pretty much here on the pic because I took the pedal from playing in the rehearsal room, the carpet there is not ideal for velcro so the slave pedal was moving pretty much. I adressed that with my band and we will change the carpet because it is maybe 30 years old and has seen too much liquids spilled over it... You all know the problem... :D )
** The video I'm referring to is here:

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

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#2 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:28 pm

Hey dude! I'm glad you found the video useful! Unfortunately I can't see the pic you attached here, but maybe I could still be of some help?

The original edits of the video were waaaaay longer so even with this video being twice as long as I'd like, there was quite a bit that I wanted to say that I had to cut out!

I just wanted to address your observation about the tilting in my playing example towards the end of the video. If you watch right at the start wen I walk over to the seat, you'll notice that me walking over there makes the floor/carpet squish down and the whole pedal etc actually moves with me. I don't have the tilting or pivoting problem when I play the pedals, that was just the movement in the floor which in my studio is also acting as acoustic control. And even in these playing examples, I couldn't feel the pedals moving up and down under my feet because obviously the foot plate was moving with me and the movement in the floor and carpet really was minimal compared to how it may have looked on camera. Also keep in mind that this part was to show how little the hoop clamp has to do with the pedals moving around on the floor, so this example didn't have the hoop clamp fastened. With the clamp fastened there is far less movement (no more than a more traditional pedal with a "normal" hoop clamp) because it makes the drum and pedal one unit.

In terms of the noises you've encountered, could you describe it? Maybe it'll give as some clues to help figure out what's going wrong there for you. There was no mic on the bass drum for that playing part at the end of my video, so this is a room mic which would pick up any of the noise you mentioned. I'm not sure what that could be. As I said, if you could describe it that might help diagnose the problem.

With the velcro/ruuber pads height difference - you have to keep in mind that if the velcro was the same depth as the pads, they would stop the velcro from being able to go down deep enough to grip the fibres of the rug. Again with my video the pedals were places on the rug and carpet but not pushed in. One of the parts I cut from the video is an explanation of how I place the pedals. I cut it because I didn't think people would want to be told how to put a pedal on the ground... but as silly as it may sound, its still something worth mentioning since we are talking about how to get the most out of this specific pedal system. I lay them where they need to be, then while pressing down lightly I move them backwards and forwards and slightly side to side just to get the velcro to really dig in and grip. Remember, this isn't really typical velcro, its a much stronger, larger and firmer type of hook so once really "worked in" to the carpet, they should be really flat unless (like in my video) the surface you're playing on has any movement or "give".

To answer your questions, the short answer to both is "however you like" really. I know thats not helpful! To me, the way I did makes the most sense, but really it's just down to whatever works, and my idea of something logical may be totally wrong to others!
I may have cut the velcro a little shorter to get it further in the back of the pedal, but if I did it was only a tiny amount. I placed them like this this to make sure that the front strip prevents pedal creep while the back strip is further back to give stability and prevent side to side movement as I tend to use a slight swivel motion for faster parts. But really any even spread with good surface area should get you very similar results.

I'm sorry if this isn't very helpful! I feel like if the pedal is setup correctly it'd most likely be something to do with the floor stability? that would make the pressure of the drum on the hoop make the pedal sink into the floor a little at the front until you're applying force towards the mid and back. I haven't experienced any problems with the pedals pivoting or tipping except when I have had techs tilt the bass drum up too high on the reso side (putting extra pressure on the hoop clamp) and with a student over extending the spikes while "experimenting" with the pedals...

James Chapman

These users find this helpful: BaerndME and Dennis

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#3 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:10 pm (Last edited: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:07 am)

Zitat von James_Chapman im Beitrag #2
Unfortunately I can't see the pic you attached here, ...

Shit, sorry, I must have done somthin wrong with my Google Settings. (MOD EDIT: SORTED)
Does this link work? Can't edit the first post unfortunately...

The noises it caused... Well, At home I'm playing on several OSB-Plates with Stones and halved tennis balls underneath it for de-coupling-of-vibration-purposes... When the base plate is some millimeters in the air and it crashes down during the kick it makes noise, even though there's a carpet between the base plate and the OSB-Plate.
I think that is no problem because I cannot play comfortably anyway if the baseplate is moving up or down on either side. It's awesome how skillful you are that you can play like in the video even though the plate is moving.

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

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#4 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:29 pm

Sorry for the slow reply.

Looking at the photo I would say it's a combination of the spikes being out too far and probably your surface. If the spikes are out this far then the weight of the drum on the hoop clamp will tilt the pedal forward. If you have a softer or moving surface you probably won't notice the spikes are out too far - but then the weight of the drum would do this. It's not going to be because of the velcro depth. I would give it a try on a really solid flat surface with the spikes fully retracted and see if it does the same thing. At least then we can rules it out. Obviously this will move around because you won't have the velcro doing its job, but it should help find out what is causing the tilt.

James Chapman

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#5 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:18 pm (Last edited: Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:07 am)

Zitat von James_Chapman im Beitrag #4
Sorry for the slow reply.

Looking at the photo I would say it's a combination of the spikes being out too far and probably your surface. If the spikes are out this far then the weight of the drum on the hoop clamp will tilt the pedal forward. If you have a softer or moving surface you probably won't notice the spikes are out too far - but then the weight of the drum would do this. It's not going to be because of the velcro depth. I would give it a try on a really solid flat surface with the spikes fully retracted and see if it does the same thing. At least then we can rules it out. Obviously this will move around because you won't have the velcro doing its job, but it should help find out what is causing the tilt.

No Problem and thanks for the reply.
I tried to explain this in the fist post: The spikes were out because I took the photo when I came from the rehearsal room, I had no tilting there but the carpet there is more like something between foam, sponge and rubber, the velcro did not stick there, I had to use more spikes because less did not work. Already adressed that with my band and we will do something about the carpet in the near future.
At home situation is different and I had less spikes out. The pvioting point for the tilting of the slave pedal (photo is slave) was in the very back, far away from the spikes.

I'm going to start today's practice session in a few minutes, if I remember to do so I will take a pic of my current velcro setup wich seems to work but looks pretty ugly.

If you have some time left I'd be nice if you edited my first post so that the link is visible for everyone. :) (MOD EDIT: Done ;-))

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

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#6 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:46 pm

Hey dude, sorry I posted the reply in your other thread before seeing this one. Seems like you've really started experimenting with various velcro placements and setups. Excellent news, you will find something that works for you!

I think James has covered pretty much every suggestion I would have stated too, so I'll add something different - here are two things I use that I believe are very helpful:
Road Runner Drum Rug w/ Weighted Corners (item #RRDR1) - this one: amazon dot com/gp/product/B01I73HW16/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-- this thing was MADE for velcro! yes, over time spikes will create holes (don't believe the marketing that it "eliminates floor damage" - I actually also put the Aucuda drum rug (amazon dot com/gp/product/B07WSM8F8S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) under it when I play on hardwood floors), as it's relatively thin, but man does it ever grip velcro. In addition to my ACD hardware, I also use these: Protection Racket Drum Mat Numbered Markers (amazon dot com/gp/product/B005ZPZL3Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - I can vacuum over these and they do not come up! May not work for you, depending on how big your setup is, but I'm sure there are larger similar rugs.

Pearl PS85 Pedal Stabilizer (item #PS85) - this one: amazon dot com/gp/product/B0002E1VYS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-- I have used this thing on my slave pedal for years and my pedal absolutely does not move an inch. I'm not a "technique" player, I stomp the fucking things.

Hope you find something that works for you dude!

Note - change "amazon dot " to "amazon." in the URLs, as I'm not allowed to post links at the moment. But being in IT, I'm sure you know that :)

pulchramorte.com

These users find this helpful: BaerndME and Dennis

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#7 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:18 pm

First of all: Thanks @ Mod for the picture edit. Hopefully it will work better this time. :)

Second: Thanks TC. I'm actually in the market for a new drum carpet now since this topic came up. Unfortunately, the one you posted is sold out and a bit small, but I'm sure I'll find something!
Those Stabilizers look mean. Hmmm... If the velcro alone fails I'll take this into consideration. :)

Third: Fuck, Sorry, I forgot to post the pic I promised. So here it is:

Using the velcro this way seems to work, even though this has some disadvantages (attaching it over the hole will reduce how well the adhesive will stick it to the baseplate) but I still did not want to cut it too much.

Still curious how you all out there attached your velcro, so... Feel free to post and comment pics. :)

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

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#8 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:51 pm (Last edited: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:51 pm)

i've actually recently started removing the front velcro entirely, for a couple reasons:
1) with my slave pedal, i use the attachment above, so unnecessary
2) with my main pedal, the spurs of the kick keep it from really moving

Also, probably noteworthy, I play something like a combo of more traditional heel up/flat, so no swivel or side-to-side motion whatsoever. When I mess around with heel/toe technique, I do get a very slight bounce, so if I ever take this technique seriously, I'd probably reattach the front velcro. When I did have it attached, I found it difficult to get the pedal quickly positioned under the kick, as it would immediately stick to the rug. Made things very fiddly during change-overs. So I removed it. Now I just angle the pedal, slide it under the drum in the right place, loosely tighten the clamp, and plant the heel. Works for me. Obviously it sounds like this really wouldn't work for you, but I'm confident you'll find something!

As you can see, I removed all the little pads entirely. Nothing on the bottom but one piece of velcro at the heel with spikes sticking out very shortly.

embiggen: addpics dot com/i/yge-1-3b3e.jpg
(can't add real links yet, replace "addpics dot " with "addpics." in above URL to see)

pulchramorte.com

These users find this helpful: BaerndME and Dennis

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#9 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:07 am

Hi,

has this remained your set up? Any news ? :)) Curious to hear what you did to solve the issue..

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#10 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:03 am (Last edited: Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:03 am)

Zitat von groovedetector im Beitrag #9
Hi,

has this remained your set up? Any news ? :)) Curious to hear what you did to solve the issue..

Is this a question for TC or for me?

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

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#11 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:29 am

You, BaerndMe

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#12 | RE: (Optional) Velcro placement datum

Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:57 am

The velcro alone seems to work so far. Sometimes the slave pedal moves some millimeters in our rehearsal room (sub-optimal carpet) but the main pedal stays in place.
I also got used to tighten the hoopclamp only as much as i can do with my index finger alone without any effort, that works and makes attaching and packing (which I do twice a week) much more comfortable.

So yes, this solves any problems for me so far. :)

Worst Darwin FTW drummer at the board.

These users find this helpful: Dennis and James_Chapman

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